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[cdn-nucl-l] Re: RE: Nuclear Renaissance (Rod Adams) (Dan Meneley)
Rod: It appears that you have misunderstood essentially everything I said. Here are my comments on your comments:
_____________________________________-
I cannot help but reply. There is definitely a need for a revival of the nuclear industry.
The nuclear industry in the world is functioning extremely well. About 450 are operating. More than 50 units are under construction and more than 100 are in advanced planning stages. The problem is in North America.
_______________________________________
Anyone who considers continued operation of 30+ year old machinery without any new construction a successful industry has a very narrow view of the world. If there was no additional need for generating capacity during that time, I might be convinced to agree, but an awful lot of sales went to new natural gas fired power plants that could be built quickly in smaller increments.
If you had thought about the advances in Qinshan 3 versus Point Lepreau you would have realized that the reactors built in the last decade (and the next) are/will be indeed new designs -- they're cheaper and more reliable than the oldies. That process can and will continue, if we have any sense. What we do NOT need is to reinvent this simple machine every time we build the next one -- note that I did recommend building hundreds of repeat (evolving) designs, until such time as we can dig ourselves out of the hole we've dug for ourselves over the past 2-3 decades.
The fact that the only developed and partially licensed plans available are for reactors with a minimum size of 600 MWe indicates the need for continued design work to produce systems that can fit the needs of a wide range of customers that operate large factories, mines, off-shore oil production facilities, ships, islands, developing countries, remote villages, and spots in the current grid that need a hundred or two hundred MW, not 600-1600 MW.
Nothing new about building small reactors. All the necessary concept work, and much of the final design work, was complete decades ago before the demand for large (cheap) reactors took over the market. Look through the Russian sales brochures. They have some good, proven units ready for sale.
There is nothing to fear but fear itself, but the idea that the only size that nuclear needs is extra large can produce some very scary project risks in a financial world that has realized that making bets in increments of billions is a game for only the most hard core or foolish gamblers.
Did I say that big is beautiful? I don't think so! But there's little risk in repeating a design that has been built and operated for years, even if it is large. What I did say - and stand by - is that this is a very bad time to go around inventing and re-inventing brand new reactor designs, of any size.
The idea that the time for design work ended thirty years ago is reminiscent of the guy at the patent office in the 1800s who lamented that all that could be invented had already been invented.
Whose idea is this, anyway? Certainly not mine. The path from dreams to concepts to the start of real design work is an extremely hazardous path because it contains far too many assumptions. Go to work improving an existing successful design in small increments, and you will have eliminated much of the downside risk.
Reactor development is an ENTIRELY different subject from the subject of building a fleet of power producers. In the development business what you want is somebody with some spare cash with which he is willing to take a flyer. But this subject should never be mixed up with the serious job of replacing oil as our primary energy source. In that business the lowest rick is to build only what we know already is going to work.
Dan M.
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_______________________________________________
Today's Topics:
1. RE: Nuclear Renaissance (Dan Meneley) (Daniel Meneley)
2. Re: RE: Nuclear Renaissance (Dan Meneley) (Rod Adams)
3. G&M: The mythical assertion of fossil fuel scarcity (Jerry Cuttler)
4. future of AECL on The House (Robin Collins)
--__--__--
Message: 1
From: Daniel Meneley <Daniel.Meneley@uoit.ca>
To: "cdn-nucl-l@mailman1.cis.McMaster.CA"
<cdn-nucl-l@mailman1.cis.mcmaster.ca>
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 13:39:22 -0500
Subject: [cdn-nucl-l] RE: Nuclear Renaissance (Dan Meneley)
Andrew shows us a long list of important points.
In this reply I'd like to point out a couple of factors that may help to explain at least some of our present-day difficulties.
1) It is wrong to look for a 'renaissance' in a technology that never died. The US nuclear industry is doing rather well, thank you very much. Capacity factors are up, earnings are great, few negative happenings are evident since Chernobyl in 1986, etc. The people who are looking for A rebirth are those who participated in the original development of the industry. They think of the industry as being the R&D, design, development, construction of fancy new plants. SORRY GUYS, THOSE DAYS ARE OVER!
2) Today, the job is to build and operate hundreds of established nuclear plant design to forestall the collapse of the societies in which we live caused by the lack of cheap oil and natural gas. We don't need new designs. Don't like the designs we have in hand today?? THAT'S TOUGH BUDDY, YOU SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT OF THAT 30 YEARS AGO!
3) Can't get the building jobs going? Don't blame the machines -- instead, look to the politics of our country. We're living in a dream world, and one that will surely come to an end soon. Time to wake up and get moving, before the energetic people in the rest of the world take the lead permanently. THERE'S NOTHING TO FEAR BUT FEAR ITSELF.
Dan
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_______________________________________________
Today's Topics:
1. Re: US Nuclear Renaissance? (Andrew Daley)
-- __--__--
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 12:59:48 -0500
Subject: Re: [cdn-nucl-l] US Nuclear Renaissance?
From: Andrew Daley <daley.andrew@gmail.com>
To: "Franta, Jaroslav" <frantaj@aecl.ca>
Cc: "Multiple (E-mail)" <cdn-nucl-l@mailman1.cis.mcmaster.ca>
--0016e6d99ae6f97132047d37c421
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Agreed!!
And i suppose AREVA's over runs in Finland (is it up to 3 years behind now?=
)
and Flammanville should be included as well ...
In terms avoiding cost/ schedule overruns during the renaissance I thought
we, as an industry, promised "we've learned our lessons, this time will be
different"???
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Franta, Jaroslav <frantaj@aecl.ca> wrote:
> *UNRESTRICTED | ILLIMIT=C9 *
>
> Andrew,
>
> Regarding "i had a few more...." -- how about Areva's recent lesson in
> their loss of the UAE project ?
>
> ....seems to me the message is clear: in the future, NPP cost needs to
> come down. Not by limiting levels of safety, but by adopting reactor type=
s
> which obviate the need for added safety features. Namely, avoidance of
> process fuids & gases with lots of stored energy (water, steam, SC water,
> etc.) or potential for fires (sodium - as in LMFR like IFR). Remember tha=
t
> when the global fleet of nukes is increased by a factor of ten, a
> corresponding increase in plant safety will be required just to maintain
> current safety level of the global fleet.
>
> *Jaro*
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* cdn-nucl-l-admin@mailman1.cis.McMaster.CA [mailto:
> cdn-nucl-l-admin@mailman1.cis.McMaster.CA]*On Behalf Of *Andrew Daley
> *Sent:* January 15, 2010 9:07 AM
> *To:* George Stanford
> *Cc:* Jerry Cuttler; cdn-nucl-l@mailman1.cis.McMaster.CA
> *Subject:* Re: [cdn-nucl-l] US Nuclear Renaissance?
>
> Re: US Nuclear Renaissance...
>
> Yesterday, Florida Power and Light (FPL) suspended all work except COL
> paperwork on their proposed expansion of Turkey Point...
>
> In Canada... last year's CNA conference was titled "The Reality of
> Renaissance"... but over the past 12 months we've:
>
> - Had Pt. Lepreau overrun
> - which effectively eliminated the Talk of Lepreau 2 (and 3)
> - no announcement from OPG on Refurb of Pickering B or Darlington
> - OPG/ government suspension of Darlington new nuclear
> - Saskatchewan saying no to nuclear
> - I haven't heard anything from bruce in awhile about Alberta
> - Bruce dropping plans for Nanticoke developments
> - NRU down for a long time and associated issues
> - Federal Government, um, "actions" in nuclear
> - i had a few more but they have slipped my mind
>
> Now, obviously, we are in the midst of "unprecedented" economic times whi=
ch
> is having repercussions throughout many industries... but since energy us=
e
> and GDP are correlated maybe we are hit harder than some...
>
> But does that explain the whole story?
>
> My questions to all you folks who are smarter and more politically astute
> than myself:
>
> Does the renaissance need saving? If yes, can it be saved? If yes, how?
>
> -Andrew
>
> --
>
> *Please note: The views expressed in this e-mail are solely those of the
> author. The contents are personal opinion only. No further meaning can =
be
> attributed in any circumstance.*
>
>
>
>
> CONFIDENTIAL AND PRIVILEGED INFORMATION NOTICE
>
> This e-mail, and any attachments, may contain information that
> is confidential, subject to copyright, or exempt from disclosure.
> Any unauthorized review, disclosure, retransmission,
> dissemination or other use of or reliance on this information
> may be unlawful and is strictly prohibited.
>
> AVIS D'INFORMATION CONFIDENTIELLE ET PRIVIL=C9GI=C9E
>
> Le pr=E9sent courriel, et toute pi=E8ce jointe, peut contenir de
> l'information qui est confidentielle, r=E9gie par les droits
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>
--=20
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<div>Agreed!!<br>=A0<br>And i suppose AREVA's over runs in Finland (is =
it up to 3 years behind now?) and Flammanville should be included as well .=
.. <br>=A0<br>In terms avoiding cost/ schedule overruns during the renaissa=
nce=A0I thought we, as an industry,=A0 promised "we've learned our=
lessons, this time will be different"???</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div><br><br>=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Franta, Jarosla=
v <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:frantaj@aecl.ca";>frantaj@aecl.ca<=
/a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<div><font face=3D"Monotype Corsiva" color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"5"><span lan=
g=3D"EN-CA">
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><b>UNRESTRICTED | ILLIMIT=C9 </b><br><br=
>Andrew,</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">Regarding "<font face=3D"Times New =
Roman" color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3">i had a few more....</font>" -- ho=
w about Areva's recent lesson in their loss of the UAE project ?</font>=
</p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">....seems to me the message is clear:=A0=
<span>in the future, </span>NPP cost needs to come down. Not by limiting le=
vels of safety, but by adopting reactor types which obviate the need for ad=
ded safety features. Namely, avoidance of process fuids & gases with lo=
ts of stored energy (water, steam, SC water, etc.) or potential for fires (=
sodium - as in LMFR like IFR). Remember that when the global fleet of nukes=
is increased by a factor of ten, a corresponding increase in plant safety =
will be required just to maintain current safety level of the global fleet.=
</font></p>
<p></p></span><em>Jaro</em></font> <br><font face=3D"Haettenschweiler" colo=
r=3D"#0000ff">^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^</font>=20
<div>
<div></div>
<div class=3D"h5">
<blockquote dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2">-----Origi=
nal Message-----<br><b>From:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:cdn-nucl-l-admin@mailman=
1.cis.McMaster.CA" target=3D"_blank">cdn-nucl-l-admin@mailman1.cis.McMaster=
.CA</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:cdn-nucl-l-admin@mailman1.cis.McMaster.CA=
" target=3D"_blank">cdn-nucl-l-admin@mailman1.cis.McMaster.CA</a>]<b>On Beh=
alf Of </b>Andrew Daley<br>
<b>Sent:</b> January 15, 2010 9:07 AM<br><b>To:</b> George Stanford<br><b>C=
c:</b> Jerry Cuttler; <a href=3D"mailto:cdn-nucl-l@mailman1.cis.McMaster.CA=
" target=3D"_blank">cdn-nucl-l@mailman1.cis.McMaster.CA</a><br><b>Subject:<=
/b> Re: [cdn-nucl-l] US Nuclear Renaissance?<br>
<br></font></div>
<div>Re: US Nuclear Renaissance...</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Yesterday, Florida Power and Light (FPL) suspended all work except COL=
paperwork on their proposed expansion of Turkey Point...</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>In Canada... last year's CNA conference was titled "The Reali=
ty of Renaissance"... but over the past 12 months we've:</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>- Had Pt. Lepreau overrun</div>
<div>- which effectively eliminated the Talk of Lepreau 2 (and 3)</div>
<div>- no announcement from OPG on Refurb of Pickering B or Darlington</div=
>
<div>- OPG/ government suspension of Darlington new nuclear</div>
<div>- Saskatchewan saying no to nuclear</div>
<div>- I haven't heard anything from bruce in awhile about Alberta</div=
>
<div>- Bruce dropping plans for Nanticoke developments</div>
<div>- NRU down for a long time and associated issues</div>
<div>- Federal Government, um, "actions" in nuclear</div>
<div>- i had a few more but they have slipped my mind</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Now, obviously, we are in the midst of "unprecedented" econo=
mic times which is having repercussions throughout many industries... but s=
ince energy use and GDP are correlated maybe we are hit harder than some...=
</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>But does that explain the whole story?</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>My questions to all you folks who are smarter and more politically ast=
ute than myself:</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Does the renaissance need saving?=A0 If yes, can it be saved?=A0 If ye=
s, how?</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>-Andrew</div>
<div><br>-- <br><br>*Please note: The views expressed in this e-mail are so=
lely those of the author. =A0The contents are personal opinion only. =A0No =
further meaning can be attributed in any circumstance.*<br></div></blockquo=
te>
<br><br></div></div>
<table style=3D"COLOR: black" bgcolor=3D"white">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td><br>CONFIDENTIAL=A0AND=A0PRIVILEGED=A0INFORMATION=A0NOTICE<br><br>This=
=A0e-mail,=A0and=A0any=A0attachments,=A0may=A0contain=A0information=A0that<=
br>is=A0confidential,=A0subject=A0to=A0copyright,=A0or=A0exempt=A0from=A0di=
sclosure.<br>Any=A0unauthorized=A0review,=A0disclosure,=A0retransmission,=
=A0<br>
dissemination=A0or=A0other=A0use=A0of=A0or=A0reliance=A0on=A0this=A0informa=
tion=A0<br>may=A0be=A0unlawful=A0and=A0is=A0strictly=A0prohibited.=A0=A0<br=
><br>AVIS=A0D'INFORMATION=A0CONFIDENTIELLE=A0ET=A0PRIVIL=C9GI=C9E<br><b=
r>Le=A0pr=E9sent=A0courriel,=A0et=A0toute=A0pi=E8ce=A0jointe,=A0peut=A0cont=
enir=A0de=A0<br>
l'information=A0qui=A0est=A0confidentielle,=A0r=E9gie=A0par=A0les=A0dro=
its=A0<br>d'auteur,=A0ou=A0interdite=A0de=A0divulgation.=A0Tout=A0exame=
n,=A0<br>divulgation,=A0retransmission,=A0diffusion=A0ou=A0autres=A0utilisa=
tions=A0<br>non=A0autoris=E9es=A0de=A0l'information=A0ou=A0d=E9pendance=
=A0non=A0autoris=E9e=A0<br>
envers=A0celle-ci=A0peut=A0=EAtre=A0ill=E9gale=A0et=A0est=A0strictement=A0i=
nterdite.</td></tr></tbody></table></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=
=3D"all"><br>-- <br><br>*Please note: The views expressed in this e-mail ar=
e solely those of the author. =A0The contents are personal opinion only. =
=A0No further meaning can be attributed in any circumstance.*<br>
--0016e6d99ae6f97132047d37c421--
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--__--__--
Message: 2
Subject: Re: [cdn-nucl-l] RE: Nuclear Renaissance (Dan Meneley)
From: Rod Adams <atomicrod@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 14:02:15 -0500
To: Canadian Nuclear Discussion List <cdn-nucl-l@mailman1.cis.mcmaster.ca>
Dan:
I cannot help but reply. There is definitely a need for a revival of the nuclear industry.
Anyone who considers continued operation of 30+ year old machinery without any new construction a successful industry has a very narrow view of the world. If there was no additional need for generating capacity during that time, I might be convinced to agree, but an awful lot of sales went to new natural gas fired power plants that could be built quickly in smaller increments.
The fact that the only developed and partially licensed plans available are for reactors with a minimum size of 600 MWe indicates the need for continued design work to produce systems that can fit the needs of a wide range of customers that operate large factories, mines, off-shore oil production facilities, ships, islands, developing countries, remote villages, and spots in the current grid that need a hundred or two hundred MW, not 600-1600 MW.
There is nothing to fear but fear itself, but the idea that the only size that nuclear needs is extra large can produce some very scary project risks in a financial world that has realized that making bets in increments of billions is a game for only the most hard core or foolish gamblers.
The idea that the time for design work ended thirty years ago is reminiscent of the guy at the patent office in the 1800s who lamented that all that could be invented had already been invented.
Rod Adams
On Jan 16, 2010, at 1:39 PM, Daniel Meneley wrote:
> Andrew shows us a long list of important points.
>
> In this reply I'd like to point out a couple of factors that may help to explain at least some of our present-day difficulties.
>
> 1) It is wrong to look for a 'renaissance' in a technology that never died. The US nuclear industry is doing rather well, thank you very much. Capacity factors are up, earnings are great, few negative happenings are evident since Chernobyl in 1986, etc. The people who are looking for A rebirth are those who participated in the original development of the industry. They think of the industry as being the R&D, design, development, construction of fancy new plants. SORRY GUYS, THOSE DAYS ARE OVER!
>
> 2) Today, the job is to build and operate hundreds of established nuclear plant design to forestall the collapse of the societies in which we live caused by the lack of cheap oil and natural gas. We don't need new designs. Don't like the designs we have in hand today?? THAT'S TOUGH BUDDY, YOU SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT OF THAT 30 YEARS AGO!
>
> 3) Can't get the building jobs going? Don't blame the machines -- instead, look to the politics of our country. We're living in a dream world, and one that will surely come to an end soon. Time to wake up and get moving, before the energetic people in the rest of the world take the lead permanently. THERE'S NOTHING TO FEAR BUT FEAR ITSELF.
>
> Dan
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cdn-nucl-l-admin@mailman1.cis.McMaster.CA [mailto:cdn-nucl-l-admin@mailman1.cis.McMaster.CA] On Behalf Of cdn-nucl-l-request@mailman1.cis.McMaster.CA
> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 12:02 PM
> To: cdn-nucl-l@mailman1.cis.McMaster.CA
> Subject: cdn-nucl-l digest, Vol 1 #2731 - 1 msg
>
> Send cdn-nucl-l mailing list submissions to
> cdn-nucl-l@mailman.McMaster.CA
>
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>
>
> This is a digest version of the
> Canadian Nuclear Discussion List
> _______________________________________________
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: US Nuclear Renaissance? (Andrew Daley)
>
> -- __--__--
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 12:59:48 -0500
> Subject: Re: [cdn-nucl-l] US Nuclear Renaissance?
> From: Andrew Daley <daley.andrew@gmail.com>
> To: "Franta, Jaroslav" <frantaj@aecl.ca>
> Cc: "Multiple (E-mail)" <cdn-nucl-l@mailman1.cis.mcmaster.ca>
>
> --0016e6d99ae6f97132047d37c421
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> Agreed!!
>
> And i suppose AREVA's over runs in Finland (is it up to 3 years behind now?=
> )
> and Flammanville should be included as well ...
>
> In terms avoiding cost/ schedule overruns during the renaissance I thought
> we, as an industry, promised "we've learned our lessons, this time will be
> different"???
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Franta, Jaroslav <frantaj@aecl.ca> wrote:
>
>> *UNRESTRICTED | ILLIMIT=C9 *
>>
>> Andrew,
>>
>> Regarding "i had a few more...." -- how about Areva's recent lesson in
>> their loss of the UAE project ?
>>
>> ....seems to me the message is clear: in the future, NPP cost needs to
>> come down. Not by limiting levels of safety, but by adopting reactor type=
> s
>> which obviate the need for added safety features. Namely, avoidance of
>> process fuids & gases with lots of stored energy (water, steam, SC water,
>> etc.) or potential for fires (sodium - as in LMFR like IFR). Remember tha=
> t
>> when the global fleet of nukes is increased by a factor of ten, a
>> corresponding increase in plant safety will be required just to maintain
>> current safety level of the global fleet.
>>
>> *Jaro*
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> *From:* cdn-nucl-l-admin@mailman1.cis.McMaster.CA [mailto:
>> cdn-nucl-l-admin@mailman1.cis.McMaster.CA]*On Behalf Of *Andrew Daley
>> *Sent:* January 15, 2010 9:07 AM
>> *To:* George Stanford
>> *Cc:* Jerry Cuttler; cdn-nucl-l@mailman1.cis.McMaster.CA
>> *Subject:* Re: [cdn-nucl-l] US Nuclear Renaissance?
>>
>> Re: US Nuclear Renaissance...
>>
>> Yesterday, Florida Power and Light (FPL) suspended all work except COL
>> paperwork on their proposed expansion of Turkey Point...
>>
>> In Canada... last year's CNA conference was titled "The Reality of
>> Renaissance"... but over the past 12 months we've:
>>
>> - Had Pt. Lepreau overrun
>> - which effectively eliminated the Talk of Lepreau 2 (and 3)
>> - no announcement from OPG on Refurb of Pickering B or Darlington
>> - OPG/ government suspension of Darlington new nuclear
>> - Saskatchewan saying no to nuclear
>> - I haven't heard anything from bruce in awhile about Alberta
>> - Bruce dropping plans for Nanticoke developments
>> - NRU down for a long time and associated issues
>> - Federal Government, um, "actions" in nuclear
>> - i had a few more but they have slipped my mind
>>
>> Now, obviously, we are in the midst of "unprecedented" economic times whi=
> ch
>> is having repercussions throughout many industries... but since energy us=
> e
>> and GDP are correlated maybe we are hit harder than some...
>>
>> But does that explain the whole story?
>>
>> My questions to all you folks who are smarter and more politically astute
>> than myself:
>>
>> Does the renaissance need saving? If yes, can it be saved? If yes, how?
>>
>> -Andrew
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Please note: The views expressed in this e-mail are solely those of the
>> author. The contents are personal opinion only. No further meaning can =
> be
>> attributed in any circumstance.*
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> AVIS D'INFORMATION CONFIDENTIELLE ET PRIVIL=C9GI=C9E
>>
>> Le pr=E9sent courriel, et toute pi=E8ce jointe, peut contenir de
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>>
>
>
>
> --=20
>
> *Please note: The views expressed in this e-mail are solely those of the
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>
> --0016e6d99ae6f97132047d37c421
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <div>Agreed!!<br>=A0<br>And i suppose AREVA's over runs in Finland (is =
> it up to 3 years behind now?) and Flammanville should be included as well .=
> .. <br>=A0<br>In terms avoiding cost/ schedule overruns during the renaissa=
> nce=A0I thought we, as an industry,=A0 promised "we've learned our=
> lessons, this time will be different"???</div>
>
> <div>=A0</div>
> <div><br><br>=A0</div>
> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Franta, Jarosla=
> v <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:frantaj@aecl.ca";>frantaj@aecl.ca<=
> /a>></span> wrote:<br>
> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0=
> px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
> <div><font face=3D"Monotype Corsiva" color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"5"><span lan=
> g=3D"EN-CA">
> <p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><b>UNRESTRICTED | ILLIMIT=C9 </b><br><br=
>> Andrew,</font></p>
> <p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">Regarding "<font face=3D"Times New =
> Roman" color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3">i had a few more....</font>" -- ho=
> w about Areva's recent lesson in their loss of the UAE project ?</font>=
> </p>
> <p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">....seems to me the message is clear:=A0=
> <span>in the future, </span>NPP cost needs to come down. Not by limiting le=
> vels of safety, but by adopting reactor types which obviate the need for ad=
> ded safety features. Namely, avoidance of process fuids & gases with lo=
> ts of stored energy (water, steam, SC water, etc.) or potential for fires (=
> sodium - as in LMFR like IFR). Remember that when the global fleet of nukes=
> is increased by a factor of ten, a corresponding increase in plant safety =
> will be required just to maintain current safety level of the global fleet.=
> </font></p>
>
> <p></p></span><em>Jaro</em></font> <br><font face=3D"Haettenschweiler" colo=
> r=3D"#0000ff">^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^</font>=20
> <div>
> <div></div>
> <div class=3D"h5">
> <blockquote dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
> <div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2">-----Origi=
> nal Message-----<br><b>From:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:cdn-nucl-l-admin@mailman=
> 1.cis.McMaster.CA" target=3D"_blank">cdn-nucl-l-admin@mailman1.cis.McMaster=
> .CA</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:cdn-nucl-l-admin@mailman1.cis.McMaster.CA=
> " target=3D"_blank">cdn-nucl-l-admin@mailman1.cis.McMaster.CA</a>]<b>On Beh=
> alf Of </b>Andrew Daley<br>
> <b>Sent:</b> January 15, 2010 9:07 AM<br><b>To:</b> George Stanford<br><b>C=
> c:</b> Jerry Cuttler; <a href=3D"mailto:cdn-nucl-l@mailman1.cis.McMaster.CA=
> " target=3D"_blank">cdn-nucl-l@mailman1.cis.McMaster.CA</a><br><b>Subject:<=
> /b> Re: [cdn-nucl-l] US Nuclear Renaissance?<br>
> <br></font></div>
> <div>Re: US Nuclear Renaissance...</div>
> <div>=A0</div>
> <div>Yesterday, Florida Power and Light (FPL) suspended all work except COL=
> paperwork on their proposed expansion of Turkey Point...</div>
> <div>=A0</div>
> <div>In Canada... last year's CNA conference was titled "The Reali=
> ty of Renaissance"... but over the past 12 months we've:</div>
> <div>=A0</div>
> <div>- Had Pt. Lepreau overrun</div>
> <div>- which effectively eliminated the Talk of Lepreau 2 (and 3)</div>
> <div>- no announcement from OPG on Refurb of Pickering B or Darlington</div=
>>
> <div>- OPG/ government suspension of Darlington new nuclear</div>
> <div>- Saskatchewan saying no to nuclear</div>
> <div>- I haven't heard anything from bruce in awhile about Alberta</div=
>>
> <div>- Bruce dropping plans for Nanticoke developments</div>
> <div>- NRU down for a long time and associated issues</div>
> <div>- Federal Government, um, "actions" in nuclear</div>
> <div>- i had a few more but they have slipped my mind</div>
> <div>=A0</div>
> <div>Now, obviously, we are in the midst of "unprecedented" econo=
> mic times which is having repercussions throughout many industries... but s=
> ince energy use and GDP are correlated maybe we are hit harder than some...=
> </div>
>
> <div>=A0</div>
> <div>But does that explain the whole story?</div>
> <div>=A0</div>
> <div>My questions to all you folks who are smarter and more politically ast=
> ute than myself:</div>
> <div>=A0</div>
> <div>Does the renaissance need saving?=A0 If yes, can it be saved?=A0 If ye=
> s, how?</div>
> <div>=A0</div>
> <div>-Andrew</div>
> <div><br>-- <br><br>*Please note: The views expressed in this e-mail are so=
> lely those of the author. =A0The contents are personal opinion only. =A0No =
> further meaning can be attributed in any circumstance.*<br></div></blockquo=
> te>
> <br><br></div></div>
> <table style=3D"COLOR: black" bgcolor=3D"white">
> <tbody>
> <tr>
> <td><br>CONFIDENTIAL=A0AND=A0PRIVILEGED=A0INFORMATION=A0NOTICE<br><br>This=
> =A0e-mail,=A0and=A0any=A0attachments,=A0may=A0contain=A0information=A0that<=
> br>is=A0confidential,=A0subject=A0to=A0copyright,=A0or=A0exempt=A0from=A0di=
> sclosure.<br>Any=A0unauthorized=A0review,=A0disclosure,=A0retransmission,=
> =A0<br>
> dissemination=A0or=A0other=A0use=A0of=A0or=A0reliance=A0on=A0this=A0informa=
> tion=A0<br>may=A0be=A0unlawful=A0and=A0is=A0strictly=A0prohibited.=A0=A0<br=
>> <br>AVIS=A0D'INFORMATION=A0CONFIDENTIELLE=A0ET=A0PRIVIL=C9GI=C9E<br><b=
> r>Le=A0pr=E9sent=A0courriel,=A0et=A0toute=A0pi=E8ce=A0jointe,=A0peut=A0cont=
> enir=A0de=A0<br>
> l'information=A0qui=A0est=A0confidentielle,=A0r=E9gie=A0par=A0les=A0dro=
> its=A0<br>d'auteur,=A0ou=A0interdite=A0de=A0divulgation.=A0Tout=A0exame=
> n,=A0<br>divulgation,=A0retransmission,=A0diffusion=A0ou=A0autres=A0utilisa=
> tions=A0<br>non=A0autoris=E9es=A0de=A0l'information=A0ou=A0d=E9pendance=
> =A0non=A0autoris=E9e=A0<br>
> envers=A0celle-ci=A0peut=A0=EAtre=A0ill=E9gale=A0et=A0est=A0strictement=A0i=
> nterdite.</td></tr></tbody></table></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=
> =3D"all"><br>-- <br><br>*Please note: The views expressed in this e-mail ar=
> e solely those of the author. =A0The contents are personal opinion only. =
> =A0No further meaning can be attributed in any circumstance.*<br>
>
> --0016e6d99ae6f97132047d37c421--
>
>
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--__--__--
Message: 3
From: "Jerry Cuttler" <jerrycuttler@rogers.com>
To: "Canadian Nuclear Discussion List" <CDN-NUCL-L@mailman1.cis.mcmaster.ca>
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 22:50:08 -0500
Subject: [cdn-nucl-l] G&M: The mythical assertion of fossil fuel scarcity
Interesting article ...
http://v1.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20100115.RREYNOLDS15ART1935/TPStory/TPBusiness/
The mythical assertion of fossil fuel scarcity
NEIL REYNOLDS, Globe and Mail Newspaper, January 15, 2010
reynolds.globe@gmail.com
Born to an English coal miner's family in 1930, energy economist Peter Odell
came by his lifelong interest in carbon fuels naturally. At 80, as professor
emeritus of international energy studies at Erasmus University in Rotterdam,
he's still interested. Writing this month in the European Energy Review, a
Netherlands-based trade magazine, Prof. Odell uses his first post-Copenhagen
podium to assure people that the world will never use up its global
endowment of crude oil - and that we'll consume at least twice as much of it
in the 21st century as we did in the 20th.
snip ...
--__--__--
Message: 4
From: Robin Collins <robincol@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 01:28:57 -0500
To: Canadian Nuclear Discussion List <CDN-NUCL-L@mailman1.cis.mcmaster.ca>
Subject: [cdn-nucl-l] future of AECL on The House
listen to the last few minutes of this podcast, starting about 4/5 of
the way through:
http://podcast.cbc.ca/mp3/thehouse_20100116_25876.mp3
--__--__--
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