[Date Prev][Date Next]
[Chronological]
[Thread]
[Archive Top]
[cdn-nucl-l] RE: Nuclear Renaissance (Dan Meneley)
Andrew shows us a long list of important points.
In this reply I'd like to point out a couple of factors that may help to explain at least some of our present-day difficulties.
1) It is wrong to look for a 'renaissance' in a technology that never died. The US nuclear industry is doing rather well, thank you very much. Capacity factors are up, earnings are great, few negative happenings are evident since Chernobyl in 1986, etc. The people who are looking for A rebirth are those who participated in the original development of the industry. They think of the industry as being the R&D, design, development, construction of fancy new plants. SORRY GUYS, THOSE DAYS ARE OVER!
2) Today, the job is to build and operate hundreds of established nuclear plant design to forestall the collapse of the societies in which we live caused by the lack of cheap oil and natural gas. We don't need new designs. Don't like the designs we have in hand today?? THAT'S TOUGH BUDDY, YOU SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT OF THAT 30 YEARS AGO!
3) Can't get the building jobs going? Don't blame the machines -- instead, look to the politics of our country. We're living in a dream world, and one that will surely come to an end soon. Time to wake up and get moving, before the energetic people in the rest of the world take the lead permanently. THERE'S NOTHING TO FEAR BUT FEAR ITSELF.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: cdn-nucl-l-admin@mailman1.cis.McMaster.CA [mailto:cdn-nucl-l-admin@mailman1.cis.McMaster.CA] On Behalf Of cdn-nucl-l-request@mailman1.cis.McMaster.CA
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 12:02 PM
To: cdn-nucl-l@mailman1.cis.McMaster.CA
Subject: cdn-nucl-l digest, Vol 1 #2731 - 1 msg
Send cdn-nucl-l mailing list submissions to
cdn-nucl-l@mailman.McMaster.CA
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://mailman.McMaster.CA/mailman/listinfo/cdn-nucl-l
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
cdn-nucl-l-request@mailman.McMaster.CA
You can reach the person managing the list at
cdn-nucl-l-admin@mailman.McMaster.CA
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of cdn-nucl-l digest..."
This is a digest version of the
Canadian Nuclear Discussion List
_______________________________________________
Today's Topics:
1. Re: US Nuclear Renaissance? (Andrew Daley)
--__--__--
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 12:59:48 -0500
Subject: Re: [cdn-nucl-l] US Nuclear Renaissance?
From: Andrew Daley <daley.andrew@gmail.com>
To: "Franta, Jaroslav" <frantaj@aecl.ca>
Cc: "Multiple (E-mail)" <cdn-nucl-l@mailman1.cis.mcmaster.ca>
--0016e6d99ae6f97132047d37c421
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Agreed!!
And i suppose AREVA's over runs in Finland (is it up to 3 years behind now?=
)
and Flammanville should be included as well ...
In terms avoiding cost/ schedule overruns during the renaissance I thought
we, as an industry, promised "we've learned our lessons, this time will be
different"???
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Franta, Jaroslav <frantaj@aecl.ca> wrote:
> *UNRESTRICTED | ILLIMIT=C9 *
>
> Andrew,
>
> Regarding "i had a few more...." -- how about Areva's recent lesson in
> their loss of the UAE project ?
>
> ....seems to me the message is clear: in the future, NPP cost needs to
> come down. Not by limiting levels of safety, but by adopting reactor type=
s
> which obviate the need for added safety features. Namely, avoidance of
> process fuids & gases with lots of stored energy (water, steam, SC water,
> etc.) or potential for fires (sodium - as in LMFR like IFR). Remember tha=
t
> when the global fleet of nukes is increased by a factor of ten, a
> corresponding increase in plant safety will be required just to maintain
> current safety level of the global fleet.
>
> *Jaro*
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* cdn-nucl-l-admin@mailman1.cis.McMaster.CA [mailto:
> cdn-nucl-l-admin@mailman1.cis.McMaster.CA]*On Behalf Of *Andrew Daley
> *Sent:* January 15, 2010 9:07 AM
> *To:* George Stanford
> *Cc:* Jerry Cuttler; cdn-nucl-l@mailman1.cis.McMaster.CA
> *Subject:* Re: [cdn-nucl-l] US Nuclear Renaissance?
>
> Re: US Nuclear Renaissance...
>
> Yesterday, Florida Power and Light (FPL) suspended all work except COL
> paperwork on their proposed expansion of Turkey Point...
>
> In Canada... last year's CNA conference was titled "The Reality of
> Renaissance"... but over the past 12 months we've:
>
> - Had Pt. Lepreau overrun
> - which effectively eliminated the Talk of Lepreau 2 (and 3)
> - no announcement from OPG on Refurb of Pickering B or Darlington
> - OPG/ government suspension of Darlington new nuclear
> - Saskatchewan saying no to nuclear
> - I haven't heard anything from bruce in awhile about Alberta
> - Bruce dropping plans for Nanticoke developments
> - NRU down for a long time and associated issues
> - Federal Government, um, "actions" in nuclear
> - i had a few more but they have slipped my mind
>
> Now, obviously, we are in the midst of "unprecedented" economic times whi=
ch
> is having repercussions throughout many industries... but since energy us=
e
> and GDP are correlated maybe we are hit harder than some...
>
> But does that explain the whole story?
>
> My questions to all you folks who are smarter and more politically astute
> than myself:
>
> Does the renaissance need saving? If yes, can it be saved? If yes, how?
>
> -Andrew
>
> --
>
> *Please note: The views expressed in this e-mail are solely those of the
> author. The contents are personal opinion only. No further meaning can =
be
> attributed in any circumstance.*
>
>
>
>
> CONFIDENTIAL AND PRIVILEGED INFORMATION NOTICE
>
> This e-mail, and any attachments, may contain information that
> is confidential, subject to copyright, or exempt from disclosure.
> Any unauthorized review, disclosure, retransmission,
> dissemination or other use of or reliance on this information
> may be unlawful and is strictly prohibited.
>
> AVIS D'INFORMATION CONFIDENTIELLE ET PRIVIL=C9GI=C9E
>
> Le pr=E9sent courriel, et toute pi=E8ce jointe, peut contenir de
> l'information qui est confidentielle, r=E9gie par les droits
> d'auteur, ou interdite de divulgation. Tout examen,
> divulgation, retransmission, diffusion ou autres utilisations
> non autoris=E9es de l'information ou d=E9pendance non autoris=E9e
> envers celle-ci peut =EAtre ill=E9gale et est strictement interdite.
>
--=20
*Please note: The views expressed in this e-mail are solely those of the
author. The contents are personal opinion only. No further meaning can be
attributed in any circumstance.*
--0016e6d99ae6f97132047d37c421
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div>Agreed!!<br>=A0<br>And i suppose AREVA's over runs in Finland (is =
it up to 3 years behind now?) and Flammanville should be included as well .=
.. <br>=A0<br>In terms avoiding cost/ schedule overruns during the renaissa=
nce=A0I thought we, as an industry,=A0 promised "we've learned our=
lessons, this time will be different"???</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div><br><br>=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Franta, Jarosla=
v <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:frantaj@aecl.ca";>frantaj@aecl.ca<=
/a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<div><font face=3D"Monotype Corsiva" color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"5"><span lan=
g=3D"EN-CA">
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><b>UNRESTRICTED | ILLIMIT=C9 </b><br><br=
>Andrew,</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">Regarding "<font face=3D"Times New =
Roman" color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3">i had a few more....</font>" -- ho=
w about Areva's recent lesson in their loss of the UAE project ?</font>=
</p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">....seems to me the message is clear:=A0=
<span>in the future, </span>NPP cost needs to come down. Not by limiting le=
vels of safety, but by adopting reactor types which obviate the need for ad=
ded safety features. Namely, avoidance of process fuids & gases with lo=
ts of stored energy (water, steam, SC water, etc.) or potential for fires (=
sodium - as in LMFR like IFR). Remember that when the global fleet of nukes=
is increased by a factor of ten, a corresponding increase in plant safety =
will be required just to maintain current safety level of the global fleet.=
</font></p>
<p></p></span><em>Jaro</em></font> <br><font face=3D"Haettenschweiler" colo=
r=3D"#0000ff">^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^</font>=20
<div>
<div></div>
<div class=3D"h5">
<blockquote dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2">-----Origi=
nal Message-----<br><b>From:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:cdn-nucl-l-admin@mailman=
1.cis.McMaster.CA" target=3D"_blank">cdn-nucl-l-admin@mailman1.cis.McMaster=
.CA</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:cdn-nucl-l-admin@mailman1.cis.McMaster.CA=
" target=3D"_blank">cdn-nucl-l-admin@mailman1.cis.McMaster.CA</a>]<b>On Beh=
alf Of </b>Andrew Daley<br>
<b>Sent:</b> January 15, 2010 9:07 AM<br><b>To:</b> George Stanford<br><b>C=
c:</b> Jerry Cuttler; <a href=3D"mailto:cdn-nucl-l@mailman1.cis.McMaster.CA=
" target=3D"_blank">cdn-nucl-l@mailman1.cis.McMaster.CA</a><br><b>Subject:<=
/b> Re: [cdn-nucl-l] US Nuclear Renaissance?<br>
<br></font></div>
<div>Re: US Nuclear Renaissance...</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Yesterday, Florida Power and Light (FPL) suspended all work except COL=
paperwork on their proposed expansion of Turkey Point...</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>In Canada... last year's CNA conference was titled "The Reali=
ty of Renaissance"... but over the past 12 months we've:</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>- Had Pt. Lepreau overrun</div>
<div>- which effectively eliminated the Talk of Lepreau 2 (and 3)</div>
<div>- no announcement from OPG on Refurb of Pickering B or Darlington</div=
>
<div>- OPG/ government suspension of Darlington new nuclear</div>
<div>- Saskatchewan saying no to nuclear</div>
<div>- I haven't heard anything from bruce in awhile about Alberta</div=
>
<div>- Bruce dropping plans for Nanticoke developments</div>
<div>- NRU down for a long time and associated issues</div>
<div>- Federal Government, um, "actions" in nuclear</div>
<div>- i had a few more but they have slipped my mind</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Now, obviously, we are in the midst of "unprecedented" econo=
mic times which is having repercussions throughout many industries... but s=
ince energy use and GDP are correlated maybe we are hit harder than some...=
</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>But does that explain the whole story?</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>My questions to all you folks who are smarter and more politically ast=
ute than myself:</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Does the renaissance need saving?=A0 If yes, can it be saved?=A0 If ye=
s, how?</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>-Andrew</div>
<div><br>-- <br><br>*Please note: The views expressed in this e-mail are so=
lely those of the author. =A0The contents are personal opinion only. =A0No =
further meaning can be attributed in any circumstance.*<br></div></blockquo=
te>
<br><br></div></div>
<table style=3D"COLOR: black" bgcolor=3D"white">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td><br>CONFIDENTIAL=A0AND=A0PRIVILEGED=A0INFORMATION=A0NOTICE<br><br>This=
=A0e-mail,=A0and=A0any=A0attachments,=A0may=A0contain=A0information=A0that<=
br>is=A0confidential,=A0subject=A0to=A0copyright,=A0or=A0exempt=A0from=A0di=
sclosure.<br>Any=A0unauthorized=A0review,=A0disclosure,=A0retransmission,=
=A0<br>
dissemination=A0or=A0other=A0use=A0of=A0or=A0reliance=A0on=A0this=A0informa=
tion=A0<br>may=A0be=A0unlawful=A0and=A0is=A0strictly=A0prohibited.=A0=A0<br=
><br>AVIS=A0D'INFORMATION=A0CONFIDENTIELLE=A0ET=A0PRIVIL=C9GI=C9E<br><b=
r>Le=A0pr=E9sent=A0courriel,=A0et=A0toute=A0pi=E8ce=A0jointe,=A0peut=A0cont=
enir=A0de=A0<br>
l'information=A0qui=A0est=A0confidentielle,=A0r=E9gie=A0par=A0les=A0dro=
its=A0<br>d'auteur,=A0ou=A0interdite=A0de=A0divulgation.=A0Tout=A0exame=
n,=A0<br>divulgation,=A0retransmission,=A0diffusion=A0ou=A0autres=A0utilisa=
tions=A0<br>non=A0autoris=E9es=A0de=A0l'information=A0ou=A0d=E9pendance=
=A0non=A0autoris=E9e=A0<br>
envers=A0celle-ci=A0peut=A0=EAtre=A0ill=E9gale=A0et=A0est=A0strictement=A0i=
nterdite.</td></tr></tbody></table></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=
=3D"all"><br>-- <br><br>*Please note: The views expressed in this e-mail ar=
e solely those of the author. =A0The contents are personal opinion only. =
=A0No further meaning can be attributed in any circumstance.*<br>
--0016e6d99ae6f97132047d37c421--
--__--__--
_______________________________________________
cdn-nucl-l mailing list
cdn-nucl-l@mailman.McMaster.CA
http://mailman.McMaster.CA/mailman/listinfo/cdn-nucl-l
End of cdn-nucl-l Digest