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RE: [cdn-nucl-l] Climate Change Swindle video panned

"To Galileo Galilei"
- he said, raising his glass in salute.

Bill

At 11:02 AM 28/03/2007, PAIMENT Marc -NUCLEAR wrote:
To coin a radio talk show line, I'm long time listener (reader), first
time caller (poster) - thanks for having me on the show. 

First of all, I love that this forum allows for a science based debate
about the issue without fear of recrimination - the professionalism
shown is exemplary - thank you all!

Of particular interest is the questioning attitude of those in the
nuclear power industry regarding global warming.  I believe what we are
seeing in this forum is that many/most of us "nukies" are true
scientists at heart, and that even when our questions/views have the
potential to materially affect a resurgence of the technology we firmly
believe in, we continue to pose questions and challenge assumptions.  In
the end, we will not compromise our scientific principles by blindly
standing behind a cause that is generating more support for nuclear
power.  Nuclear power stands quite well on its own two legs and we're
prepared to continue to do battle to promote its virtues based on facts
and not arguments of convenience. 

I'm certainly not saying that those scientist who believe strongly in
human caused global warning are also not true scientists at heart.  I
greatly appreciate those of you who are continuing to contribute to this
forum by presenting science based arguments in support of your
positions.  I am by no means an expert on the field and am therefore
looking for facts on which to build up a position so this two way
discussion without the political rhetoric is worth its weight in gold to
me.

Keep up the great debate!


Marc Paiment

"In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the
humble reasoning of a single individual."
    -Galileo Galilei


-----Original Message-----
From: cdn-nucl-l-admin@mailman1.cis.mcmaster.ca
[ mailto:cdn-nucl-l-admin@mailman1.cis.mcmaster.ca] On Behalf Of Dukelow,
James S Jr
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 10:32 AM
To: Whitlock, Jeremy; Cdn-Nucl-LISTSERV (E-mail)
Subject: RE: [cdn-nucl-l] Climate Change Swindle video panned




Jeremy Whitlock wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: cdn-nucl-l-admin@mailman1.cis.McMaster.CA on behalf of Whitlock,
Jeremy
Sent: Wed 3/28/2007 5:56 AM
To: Cdn-Nucl-LISTSERV (E-mail)
Subject: RE: [cdn-nucl-l] Climate Change Swindle video panned
 
Definitely -- this documentary is no more scientific than Al Gore's
film, and should be viewed no less objectively.  For all its brash style
and warts however, the UK4 documentary does represent the main arguments
against anthropogenic global warming:
 
- that the carbon cycle has been historically driven by climate, not the
other way around;
- that solar activity is strongly correlated with historical temperature
trends;
- that historical temperatures have been warmer than today;
- that anthropogenic GHG is <1% of the total GHG additions
 
I don't believe any of the above are mentioned by Al Gore.
 
Jeremy Whitlock
 
==========================

Al Gore doesn't mention them because (in order):

Although the carbon cycle appears to be driven by the ice age cycles,
that is not relevant to the question of whether the positive feedback
connection between carbon dioxide concentrations and air and ocean
temperature can be triggered by an independent increase in carbon
dioxide concentrations.  That positive feedback is responsible for the
rapid entry into glaciations and rapid exit from glaciations.

Strongly correlated, if you look at the "right" time windows and the
"right" locations on the surface of the earth.  Look at Hoyt and
Schatten's book or at more recent reviews of the effect of variations in
solar output.

The GGWS swindle's representation of historical temperatures is
demonstrated to be a lie, to use the technical term.  See the UK
Independent article that Byran White linked us to.  The producer Martin
Durkin is a serial abuser of the truth, about which I'll say some more
in a separate message.

Not even close to being true or relevant.  One of the major greenhouse
gas components, the CFCs, have no non-anthropogenic source.  Similarly,
a large fraction of methane emissions are anthropogenic, from leaking
pipelines, leaking rice paddies, and leaking cattle and sheep.
Anthropogenic greenhouse gases are responsible for 15-20% of temperature
variation (with water vapor responsible for most of the rest) and the
anthropogenic contributions may only be a small fraction of natural
"additions", but they are what throws the previous balance between solar
energy input to the climate system and infrared energy rejection to deep
space out of balance and requires a warming of the climate system to
bring them back into balance.  This is really a simple problem of
source-sink reservoir dynamics combined with the Stefan-Boltzmann law.

Best regards.

Jim Dukelow
Pacific Northwest National Laboratory
Richland, WA
jim.dukelow@pnl.gov

These comments are mine and have not been reviewed and/or approved by my
management or by the U.S. Department of Energy.

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