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[cdn-nucl-l] Re: cdn-nucl-l digest, Vol 1 #737 - 7 msgs
All BWR plants have boron injection systems as a backup emergency shutdown system. Ed Sayre
cdn-nucl-l-request@informer2.cis.McMaster.CA wrote:
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> _______________________________________________
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: cdn-nucl-l: poison injection as a fast shutdown system (Simon Day)
> 2. RE: cdn-nucl-l: poison injection as a fast shutdown
> system (Pomirleanu, Radu)
> 3. RE: cdn-nucl-l: poison injection as a fast shutdown
> system (Brown, Morgan)
> 4. Re: cdn-nucl-l: poison injection as a fast
> shutdown system (Bill Garland)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 14:18:03 -0400
> From: Simon Day <dayse@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca>
> Organization: McMaster University
> To: Canadian Nuclear Discussion List <cdn-nucl-l@informer2.cis.McMaster.CA>
> Subject: Re: [cdn-nucl-l] cdn-nucl-l: poison injection as a fast shutdown system
>
> Ben, Adam, Jeremy and others who replied off list,
> Thank you for the information on the CANDU SDS-2 system. Yes, that
> Darlington figure of -55 mk stands out against the others.
> So, following the non-CANDU road now, the impressions are that
> poison injection is not used as a fast shutdown mechanism for PWRs or
> even BWRs. Is this indeed the case and if not, the remaining question I
> have is whether it is possible and if so how is it done, to inject
> soluble poison into a high pressure system.
> Fast shutdown systems for a PWR/BWR? Rods plus .... ? ..... One
> thought was depressurization of the core as that would lead to voiding.
> Interesting as that is a self-limiting type system. Thoughts?
> Have a nice long weekend folks,
> Simon
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 2
> From: "Pomirleanu, Radu" <PomirlR@westinghouse.com>
> To: "'Simon Day'" <dayse@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca>
> Cc: "'cdn-nucl-l@mailman.McMaster.CA'" <cdn-nucl-l@informer2.cis.McMaster.CA>
> Subject: RE: [cdn-nucl-l] cdn-nucl-l: poison injection as a fast shutdown
> system
> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 15:02:22 -0400
>
> Simon,
>
> In a PWR plant design, there used to be a fast shutdown mechanism based on
> boron injection. However, keeping a tank with a high concentration of boron
> was a problem in itself (boron crystallizes!), so some utilities suggested
> removing this system. I am not aware if this system is still implemented in
> the current PWR plant design.
>
> Cheers,
> Radu Pomirleanu
>
> > ----------
> > From: Simon Day[SMTP:dayse@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca]
> > Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 2:18 PM
> > To: Canadian Nuclear Discussion List
> > Subject: Re: [cdn-nucl-l] cdn-nucl-l: poison injection as a fast
> > shutdown system
> >
> > Ben, Adam, Jeremy and others who replied off list,
> > Thank you for the information on the CANDU SDS-2 system. Yes, that
> > Darlington figure of -55 mk stands out against the others.
> > So, following the non-CANDU road now, the impressions are that
> > poison injection is not used as a fast shutdown mechanism for PWRs or
> > even BWRs. Is this indeed the case and if not, the remaining question I
> > have is whether it is possible and if so how is it done, to inject
> > soluble poison into a high pressure system.
> > Fast shutdown systems for a PWR/BWR? Rods plus .... ? ..... One
> > thought was depressurization of the core as that would lead to voiding.
> > Interesting as that is a self-limiting type system. Thoughts?
> > Have a nice long weekend folks,
> > Simon
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > cdn-nucl-l mailing list
> > cdn-nucl-l@mailman.McMaster.CA
> > http://mailman.McMaster.CA/mailman/listinfo/cdn-nucl-l
> >
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 3
> From: "Brown, Morgan" <brownmj@aecl.ca>
> To: Canadian Nuclear Discussion List
> <cdn-nucl-l@informer2.cis.McMaster.CA>
> Subject: RE: [cdn-nucl-l] cdn-nucl-l: poison injection as a fast shutdown
> system
> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 15:18:10 -0400
>
> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
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> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C23A55.CC1536EE
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>
> Hi Simon
>
> On Joe Gonyeau's "The Virtual Nuclear Tourist" site
> http://www.nucleartourist.com/type/candu2.htm he says:
>
> "A second [CANDU] shutdown system is via gadolinium nitrate liquid "neutron
> poison" injection. Both systems operate via separate and independent trip
> logic.
> The gadolinium nitrate system function is similar to that of the PWR high
> pressure safety injection system or the BWR standby liquid control system."
>
> I think the function of the PWR HPIS is to make-up losses under loss-of
> coolant conditions, but may contain a neutron poison to guarantee shutdown.
> Guaranteeing shutdown is not the same as being a fast shutdown system.
>
> At
> http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/gen-comm/info-notices/1991/in9
> 1012.html there is a brief description of the BWR STANDBY LIQUID CONTROL
> SYSTEM which says:
>
> "The SLCS system is required to provide liquid poison [sodium pentaborate
> solution] in the event that control rod insertion is inadequate to achieve
> and maintain a cold [xenon-free] shutdown condition."
>
> This is a pumped system, but does not sound as if it is a fast-acting means
> of shutdown.
>
> cheers
>
> Morgan Brown
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Simon Day [mailto:dayse@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca]
> Sent: Friday August 02, 2002 2:18 PM
> To: Canadian Nuclear Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [cdn-nucl-l] cdn-nucl-l: poison injection as a fast
> shutdown system
>
> Ben, Adam, Jeremy and others who replied off list,
> Thank you for the information on the CANDU SDS-2 system. Yes, that
> Darlington figure of -55 mk stands out against the others.
> So, following the non-CANDU road now, the impressions are that
> poison injection is not used as a fast shutdown mechanism for PWRs or
> even BWRs. Is this indeed the case and if not, the remaining question I
> have is whether it is possible and if so how is it done, to inject
> soluble poison into a high pressure system.
> Fast shutdown systems for a PWR/BWR? Rods plus .... ? ..... One
> thought was depressurization of the core as that would lead to voiding.
> Interesting as that is a self-limiting type system. Thoughts?
> Have a nice long weekend folks,
> Simon
>
> _______________________________________________
> cdn-nucl-l mailing list
> cdn-nucl-l@mailman.McMaster.CA
> http://mailman.McMaster.CA/mailman/listinfo/cdn-nucl-l
>
> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C23A55.CC1536EE
> Content-Type: text/html;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
> <HTML>
> <HEAD>
> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
> charset=3Diso-8859-1">
> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
> 5.5.2655.35">
> <TITLE>RE: [cdn-nucl-l] cdn-nucl-l: poison injection as a fast shutdown =
> system</TITLE>
> </HEAD>
> <BODY>
>
> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hi Simon</FONT>
> </P>
>
> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>On Joe Gonyeau's "The Virtual Nuclear =
> Tourist" site <A =
> HREF=3D"http://www.nucleartourist.com/type/candu2.htm"; =
> TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.nucleartourist.com/type/candu2.htm</A> he =
> says:</FONT>
> </P>
>
> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>"A second [CANDU] shutdown system is via =
> gadolinium nitrate liquid "neutron poison" injection. Both =
> systems operate via separate and independent trip logic. </FONT></P>
>
> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>The gadolinium nitrate system function is similar to =
> that of the PWR high pressure safety injection system or the BWR =
> standby liquid control system."</FONT></P>
>
> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I think the function of the PWR HPIS is to make-up =
> losses under loss-of coolant conditions, but may contain a neutron =
> poison to guarantee shutdown. Guaranteeing shutdown is not the same as =
> being a fast shutdown system.</FONT></P>
>
> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>At <A =
> HREF=3D"http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/gen-comm/info-noti=
> ces/1991/in91012.html" =
> TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/gen-comm=
> /info-notices/1991/in91012.html</A> there is a brief description of the =
> BWR STANDBY LIQUID CONTROL SYSTEM which says:</FONT></P>
>
> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>"The SLCS system is required to provide liquid =
> poison [sodium pentaborate solution] in the event that control rod =
> insertion is inadequate to achieve and maintain a cold [xenon-free] =
> shutdown condition."</FONT></P>
>
> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>This is a pumped system, but does not sound as if it =
> is a fast-acting means of shutdown.</FONT>
> </P>
>
> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>cheers</FONT>
> </P>
>
> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Morgan Brown</FONT>
> </P>
> <BR>
>
> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Simon Day [<A =
> HREF=3D"mailto:dayse@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca";>mailto:dayse@mcmail.cis.mcm=
> aster.ca</A>]</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Friday August 02, 2002 2:18 PM</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: Canadian Nuclear Discussion List</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: Re: [cdn-nucl-l] cdn-nucl-l: poison =
> injection as a fast</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>shutdown system</FONT>
> </P>
> <BR>
>
> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Ben, Adam, Jeremy and others who replied off =
> list,</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> Thank you for the information on =
> the CANDU SDS-2 system. Yes, that</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Darlington figure of -55 mk stands out against the =
> others.</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> So, following the non-CANDU road =
> now, the impressions are that</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>poison injection is not used as a fast shutdown =
> mechanism for PWRs or</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>even BWRs. Is this indeed the case and if not, =
> the remaining question I</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>have is whether it is possible and if so how is it =
> done, to inject</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>soluble poison into a high pressure system.</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> Fast shutdown systems for a =
> PWR/BWR? Rods plus .... ? ..... One</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>thought was depressurization of the core as that =
> would lead to voiding.</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Interesting as that is a self-limiting type =
> system. Thoughts?</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Have a nice long weekend folks,</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Simon</FONT>
> </P>
>
> <P><FONT =
> SIZE=3D2>_______________________________________________</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>cdn-nucl-l mailing list</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>cdn-nucl-l@mailman.McMaster.CA</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2><A =
> HREF=3D"http://mailman.McMaster.CA/mailman/listinfo/cdn-nucl-l"; =
> TARGET=3D"_blank">http://mailman.McMaster.CA/mailman/listinfo/cdn-nucl-l=
> </A></FONT>
> </P>
>
> </BODY>
> </HTML>
> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C23A55.CC1536EE--
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 16:16:16 -0400
> To: Simon Day <dayse@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca>,
> Canadian Nuclear Discussion List <cdn-nucl-l@informer2.cis.McMaster.CA>
> From: Bill Garland <garlandw@mcmaster.ca>
> Subject: Re: [cdn-nucl-l] cdn-nucl-l: poison injection as a fast
> shutdown system
>
> <html>
> <font size=3>Light water reactors have negative void reactivity
> coefficients (probably the temperature coeff too). So there is no
> pressing need for the 2nd shutdown system. Same situation as our
> own MNR.<br><br>
> Bill<br><br>
> At 02:18 PM 8/2/2002 -0400, Simon Day wrote:<br>
> <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>Ben, Adam, Jeremy and others who
> replied off list,<br>
> Thank you for the information on the CANDU SDS-2
> system. Yes, that<br>
> Darlington figure of -55 mk stands out against the others.<br>
> So, following the non-CANDU road now, the impressions
> are that<br>
> poison injection is not used as a fast shutdown mechanism for PWRs
> or<br>
> even BWRs. Is this indeed the case and if not, the remaining
> question I<br>
> have is whether it is possible and if so how is it done, to inject<br>
> soluble poison into a high pressure system.<br>
> Fast shutdown systems for a PWR/BWR? Rods plus
> .... ? ..... One<br>
> thought was depressurization of the core as that would lead to
> voiding.<br>
> Interesting as that is a self-limiting type system. Thoughts?<br>
> Have a nice long weekend folks,<br>
> Simon<br><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> cdn-nucl-l mailing list<br>
> cdn-nucl-l@mailman.McMaster.CA<br>
> <a href="http://mailman.mcmaster.ca/mailman/listinfo/cdn-nucl-l"; eudora="autourl">http://mailman.McMaster.CA/mailman/listinfo/cdn-nucl-l</a></blockquote>
> <x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
> Bill Garland
> <a href="http://engphys.mcmaster.ca/faculty/garland"; eudora="autourl">http://engphys.mcmaster.ca/faculty/garland<br>
> </a>~~~~~~~~oOo~~~~~~~~~</font></html>
>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________
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> cdn-nucl-l@mailman.McMaster.CA
> http://mailman.McMaster.CA/mailman/listinfo/cdn-nucl-l
>
> End of cdn-nucl-l Digest